Postal Dispute.

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 1 April 2004

Thursday, 1 April 2004

Ceisteanna (2, 3, 4)

Thomas P. Broughan

Ceist:

2 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the position in regard to his Department’s consideration of the recovery plan from An Post which he ordered the company on 4 September 2003 to produce; the position regarding postal services around the country in view of the suspension of large numbers of workers; the steps he is taking to assist in finding a solution to the dispute, thus allowing the resumption of full services; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10396/04]

Seán Crowe

Ceist:

3 Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources if he will report on progress made in resolving the lock out of members of the Communications Workers Union by An Post management. [10326/04]

Paddy McHugh

Ceist:

5 Mr. McHugh asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources if he will report on the disruptions at An Post; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10328/04]

Freagraí ó Béal (21 píosaí cainte)

Mr. D. Ahern

I propose to take Questions Nos. 2, 3 and 5 together. The Labour Relations Commission has issued a framework document to An Post and the Communications Workers Union. Both sides have considered the document and are prepared to enter talks under the terms of the LRC proposal. I welcome this very significant development as a positive step towards resolving the current difficulties.

Extensive contacts have been undertaken over the course of the past week involving all the major stakeholders, including the Labour Relations Commission, to find a basis on which both sides could commence negotiations. While this latest step represents significant progress, the challenge in finding a basis on which the Labour Relations Commission could get involved is an indication of how complex and deep-seated the issues are, and nobody should underestimate the difficulty of finding a resolution to the current dispute. For my part, I emphasise that the Government is fully committed to the An Post employee share ownership plan, ESOP, in the context of the implementation of a recovery strategy for the company and provided that the terms of the agreement are complied with.

It is clear that An Post customers are suffering serious inconvenience as a result of the dispute and companies which operate in a highly competitive business environment cannot afford any loss in competitiveness arising from an industrial relations situation outside their control. An Post's financial situation is such that a prolonged dispute could cause serious financial damage to the company.

An Post needs to restructure and return to a firm financial footing if it is to be a strong player in the Irish postal market. It must continue to provide quality services to customers and sustainable employment for staff. The recovery strategy approved unanimously by the board of An Post sets out the basis on which the company, in partnership with the trades unions, can do so.

I compliment the management and staff of An Post, the union leaders and their members, the Labour Relations Commission and Mr. Kieran Mulvey and my staff on the discussions that have led to this significant breakthrough. I wish all involved the best.

Mr. Broughan

On behalf of the Labour Party, I commend the leadership of the Communications Workers' Union and the management of An Post on reaching the stage of entering real negotiations, which the House warmly welcomes.

Is it not true that one of the most destructive aspects of this dispute was that the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Dermot Ahern, as shareholder on behalf of the State, gave the green light to An Post's chief executive to pursue an aggressive and gung-ho industrial relations policy? Last November, these profound issues were being addressed by both sides, but suddenly the chief executive said "no". It is perceived that this could not have happened unless the Minister authorised such a policy. Will he explain his role in the dispute?

Has the Minister any estimate for the cost and damage of this dispute to the economy? As a director of a small business centre, I have received countless e-mails and telephone calls from small businesses and voluntary organisations all of which are disgusted with the loss of the postal service which was a key mode to doing business. Has the Government estimated the damage that has been done in that regard? What has this dispute cost to An Post?

Everyone will welcome that the negotiations will now be on partnership basis in the bid to maintain the postal service. Will the Minister indicate that the negotiations will be in accordance with the ambition of Sustaining Progress to ensure partnership in semi-State companies rather than descending into lock-outs and provocative actions where workers are prevented from carrying out their work by gung-ho management?

Mr. D. Ahern

The Deputy is strange as he compliments the management of An Post and then attacks them in the same breath. An Post's financial situation has been difficult for some years, particularly with unsustainable losses of €17 million in 2002, €43 million in 2003 and an estimated €30 million this year. It is the workers who will ultimately suffer if these continue. An Post's management brought forward a draft strategy towards the end of last year which was approved by all the members of the board, including the five worker directors. I received a presentation of the strategy before management engaged with the unions. Unfortunately, those discussions broke down almost immediately because of the precarious financial position of An Post.

Thankfully, as a result of the intense discussions over recent days, there is now a basis upon which all the issues, including the ESOP and Sustaining Progress, can be examined. It will be a difficult time for all parties involved, not just for management. It will be difficult for the shareholder — the State and taxpayer — because issues will be difficult to grasp. I am optimistic that, within the structure set up by Mr. Kieran Mulvey and his team, discussions will work, leading to a better postal service. The public requires an efficient and effective postal service at a reasonable cost to the taxpayer.

Mr. Broughan

What about the cost?

Mr. Crowe

How much has the dispute cost? Some claim it will cost An Post €14 million. As Deputy Broughan stated, it has caused disruption for charities, credit management groups and the like. Does the Minister not share my unease about the treatment of some of the suspended staff? I understand that the Minister does not wish to inflame the situation, but a number of staff were suspended because they would not operate certain machines. Is the Minister aware that some staff were not trained to operate the machines in question? Is he aware that some have cancer or are pregnant and had medical letters stating that they were not to operate the machines. One staff member received a letter of suspension when he was at his mother-in-law's funeral. Will the Minister agree that management attempted to drive the staff out in what was really a lock-out?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should confine himself to questions.

Mr. Crowe

As the largest shareholder in An Post, the Minister has an obligation to ensure that workers in the company are treated in a fair and respected way. Is he aware of how some workers have been treated as I have outlined? Does he accept that there is a problem with management? Where has management learnt its industrial relations, as this is not the way to treat workers? I accept the Minister's argument that there is——

An Ceann Comhairle

I again draw to the attention of Deputy Crowe the fact that three Members have submitted questions. He cannot continue making statements and should confine himself to questions.

Mr. Crowe

Is the Minister concerned about these suspensions which have exacerbated this dispute?

Mr. D. Ahern

The Deputy heard from me on this issue when I answered, at some length, a Private Notice Question at the beginning of the dispute. No one wants to see workers suspended and treated unfairly. However, there are issues in this dispute, as in the past, on which both the management and unions cannot agree. I insisted, particularly with the ongoing discussions, that all issues, including the bushfire disputes at Tuam and Drogheda, be on the table at the Labour Relations Commission to be resolved. Ultimately, as I have said all along, our time-honoured industrial relations mechanisms are designed to give each of the parties an opportunity to air their views and grievances, some of which have been articulated here.

Mr. Coveney

Will we have a postal service in the meantime?

Mr. McHugh

It is probably fortunate for the Minister that he is taking Question Time today, after we have heard the news, which I welcome, that both sides have agreed to sit down to do some serious business. I am sometimes amused by the shadow-boxing that takes place before the real issues are faced. It appears that the moving and shaking has finished and the real work is being started. I hope that the issues are sorted out as soon as possible for the sake of the country, the workers and the company. The Minister is aware that I have a specific interest in the disruptions in Tuam and north Galway, as I have raised the matter with him on previous occasions. I thank the Minister for the interest he has taken in the matter.

I have said on many occasions that the core problem relates to unsuitable and unsafe working conditions. I have impressed on the Minister and the management of An Post that the priority should be to solve the central issues. I am glad the management of An Post has moved on the issue of finding new accommodation by signing a lease on new premises. I thank An Post's management for moving on the issue, although it was needlessly dragged out for a considerable period of time. I thank the Minister for showing such interest in the matter. I imagine that his interest has moved the situation forward.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should ask a question. I have already drawn Deputy Crowe's attention to the fact that three members have submitted questions.

Mr. McHugh

Does the Minister agree that the question of clearing the backlog in north-east Galway still needs to be addressed? I ask him to urge the relevant principals to deal with the backlog. I do not seek a reinvention of the wheel. Agreement was reached on a previous occasion when a similar backlog developed for the same reason. Will the Minister ask the management of An Post to pursue the route that was followed on a previous occasion to clear the backlog? He should side-step the shadow-boxing and go right to the core of the issue because the people of Tuam and north-east Galway have suffered too much for too long.

Mr. D. Ahern

I thank the Deputy for his remarks. It is true I have taken a keen interest in the bushfires, as I call them, in Tuam, Drogheda and elsewhere. There were unofficial strikes in such areas, although I accept there were issues. I concur with what the Deputy said about the manner in which the matter has been handled by management in Tuam in the recent past. I understand that the backlog in Tuam is not huge. The difficulties that existed at the start were worse than those in the recent past. As I said earlier, I insisted that the individual bushfires would be part of the discussions feeding into the LRC. That has been taken care of in the document released by the LRC. I understand that the LRC will employ an additional person to deal specifically with the separate issues. I also understand that the industrial action in the four locations will cease, with the action that has been taking place in Dublin.

Mr. Broughan

I would like to ask the Minister about a number of points he made last week when he answered questions in the House at the start of the dispute. When will the independent financial report on the employee share ownership trust be published? Will the Minister indicate, based on his contacts with the company, when its accounts will be published? We raised queries last week about figures that were in the 2002 company accounts. Does the Minister agree that the Department should examine the universal public service obligation? Perhaps the Minister will set out the way in which the great postal service we have had for 150 years can be retained.

Mr. Crowe

It has been suggested that the dispute will cost An Post €14 million. Based on his figures, does the Minister have any idea how much it will cost? Has he been in touch with management in that regard? Will he urge management to reinstate the suspended workers? There is a huge desire to move beyond the dispute and to get workers back in their jobs. Will the Minister urge management to reinstate the workers?

Mr. D. Ahern

I understand that the suspensions will be lifted, now that the CWU and An Post have agreed to enter talks from Monday, and that people will be able to go back to work. I hope that will happen in the near future and that we will get a postal service up and running.

Mr. Coveney

Hear, hear.

Mr. D. Ahern

I was also asked about the cost to An Post. In a perverse way, An Post's financial position in the last month or two has been better than anticipated, mainly because it has not paid increases under Sustaining Progress. When the increases are paid — it is accepted they will ultimately be paid — An Post's difficulties may come back again.

We received a draft copy of the Ernst & Young report on the employee share ownership plan last week. A number of issues have to be clarified in that regard. The report will have to be given to the parties involved, in the interests of fairness, and a decision on whether to publish it will be taken at that stage. It would like to think that the report will feed into the discussions that are taking place at the LRC. The Government is fully committed to an ESOP, provided the conditions under which it was originally put together are met. That is why I specifically asked for an independent examination by Ernst & Young in that regard. When I was responding to Private Notice Questions last week, I indicated that the draft report suggested that what we already suspected was true, that the ESOP issue could not be finalised at this stage. I hope we can re-examine those issues at the LRC discussions.

Mr. Broughan

When will the company accounts be published?