Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 27 Nov 1957

Vol. 164 No. 7

Committee on Finance. - Scholarship Exchange (Ireland and the United States of America) Bill, 1957—Second Stage.

Minister for External Affairs (Mr. Aiken)

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time.

This Bill is intended to implement the agreement signed on 16th March, 1957, between Ireland and the United States of America. That agreement provided that a sum of £500,000 out of the American Grant Counterpart Fund should be used to promote mutual understanding between the countries by wider exchange of knowledge through educational contacts. As Deputies are, of course, aware, the American Grant Counterpart Fund amounted in all to about £6,000,000. It is the sterling equivalent of the £18,000,000 grant which the United States so generously gave to Ireland in 1948.

Out of the £6,000,000 Grant Counterpart Fund this Bill proposes to use the sum of £500,000 in order to form a Scholarship Exchange Fund. Apart from such amounts as may be needed for current requirements the £500,000 will be invested in securities approved by the Minister for Finance. The fund will be administered by a board of seven members of whom four will be citizens of Ireland appointed by the Minister for External Affairs and there citizens of the United States appointed by the head of the United States Diplomatic Mission to Ireland. An Irish member will be appointed chairman of the board.

The function of the board will be to promote educational exchanges between Ireland and the United States of America and to finance such exchanges from the fund. It is intended that, under the scheme, Irish lecturers, university graduates and research workers, will be enabled to lecture at, or work in, American institutions of higher education and other similar institutions. In the same way, American lecturers, graduates and research workers will be enabled to carry on their work in Ireland.

It is hardly necessary for me to enlarge upon the advantages of such a scheme. There has, in the past, been a considerable amount of contact and co-operation between us on an academic level, but a proper development of this has been hampered by lack of funds. The agreement to use part of the Grant Counterpart Fund for the purpose will, I feel sure, be welcomed by everyone concerned with intellectual and cultural work in this country. Many of the distinguished Irish scholars who have hitherto been unable, for financial reasons, to accept invitations to lecture to learned bodies in America will, under the scheme, be enabled to visit America and to lecture there on subjects of Irish and of general interest. In this way Irish scholarship will be better known and appreciated abroad.

We may confidently expect that a regular exchange of persons of high academic standing will strengthen still further the friendship and understanding which have always existed between Ireland and the United States. I am sure that the Irish students will benefit greatly by the experience and knowledge they will gain during their stay in the United States, and I fervently hope that in view of their great generosity the people of the United States will reap the maximum possible benefit from this scheme.

Mr. D. Costello

My Party naturally welcomes this Bill. It gives statutory effect to an agreement which was entered into between the predecessors of the present Government and the Government of the United States. We feel it is an agreement which will bring benefits to both countries, one which we recommend to the Dáil.

In welcoming the Bill, I think we should pay some tribute to the generosity of the American people who have made these funds available to finance the projects envisaged by the Bill. I believe there is much in American learning, scholarship and technology from which our people can learn. I also venture to suggest that there is much in our Irish culture which can be of interest to American scholars and students. The provisions of this Bill must inevitably bring a greater understanding between our two countries and bring still closer the links which have bound us so closely in the past.

There are only two matters which I would like to raise on the Bill itself. The first is a suggestion in regard to the title of the board to be set up under the Bill. It has been the custom in our legislation in recent years not to provide an English translation of the names of boards which are set up and give names in the Irish language. It does seem that we should make an exception in this case in view of the fact that three members of the board will be citizens of the United States and that the board will, perhaps, come within the province of United States legislation and certainly of the United States organisation responsible for foreign exchange. It might be a gracious gesture on our part to give an English translation so that the name of the board in the Irish language can be known by its equivalent in the English language.

I should like the Minister to indicate the type of people it is proposed to appoint to the board. The Minister has wide powers of selection, the only requirements for his four appointees being that they should be Irish citizens. I should be glad to know if it is proposed that they should be civil servants or persons from the academic world. Perhaps also the Minister can indicate how long he envisages the board will operate. Does he think that the amount of money available should be spent over a short period or are the schemes, to be put to the Minister by the board and approved by him, to be of such a nature as to involve the board's operation for a considerable number of years?

Mr. Dillon

I should like to add one word before the Minister concludes. I need hardly say that I heartily endorse what Deputy Costello has said especially with reference to the munificence of the American people and the splendid gifts they have given to this nation, this being the second occasion within very recent times that we have had to legislate for the profitable employment of the magnificent endowments that they have provided.

We frequently hear in public discussions in this country emphasis laid upon the fundamental importance of the agricultural industry to the entire economy. This Bill is designed to provide scholarships for the higher education of Irish nationals and we can readily imagine the students of the humanities and sciences availing of the facilities that will be here made available but I should like to suggest to the Minister that the board should be invited, when determining the basis of allocation of these scholarships, to bear in mind the fundamental importance of agriculture to the whole life of this country—social and economic— so that we may rest assured that the graduates and students in agricultural science and in veterinary science will be accorded their due share of the opportunities made available by this scheme.

I think it right to place on record that already, as a result of the munificence of a great American foundation —the Kellogg Trust—we are already enabled to send to America a number of veterinary graduates for post-graduate work and, although that scheme has only been in operation for the past two years, it has already made provision for several young veterinary graduates of this country to do post-graduate work in America with a view to bringing that knowledge and skill to the service of the agricultural community of this country.

I am a little apprehensive that in a scholarship exchange scheme of this kind these aspects of learning may be overshadowed by the claims of medicine, engineering, science and the arts. It is for that reason that on this occasion I invite the co-operation of the Minister for External Affairs in taking such steps as would be appropriate for bringing to the attention of this board the potentialities of scholarship grants in the faculties of veterinary science and agriculture in addition to such opportunities as might more readily occur to a board such as is envisaged in this Bill.

Deputy Costello asked the Minister to indicate what sort of board, in so far as he is responsible for appointing it, he has in mind. I should be glad if he were in a position to answer that question at this stage and if he would tell us whether it is his intention to secure careful attention to that aspect of the matter to which I have referred by putting on the board somebody who has an approximate or an indirect knowledge of or interest in agricultural and veterinary science.

Mr. Aiken

One of the very heartening things in a rather troubled world is the way in which the American people and the American Government are prepared to foster technical knowledge throughout the world. In years gone by, people who developed technical knowledge were inclined to keep it to themselves but the American Government have gone out with a deliberate policy to ensure that a large number of nations would have available to them as high a technical education as possible and all the technical knowledge available even to the American people themselves. It is the beginning of something that is very important to the world.

I was asked a few questions some of which I cannot answer and others which I can. I do not know what the names of the members of the board will be but I am sure that no board to select people to go to the United States for research work would be complete unless it had upon it people who have had an interest in agriculture as well as people interested in the arts.

Deputy Costello asked how long the fund was going to last. The fund will be a permanent fund and, like everything human, if we are wise we shall have to make provision for its coming to an end. Provision has been made for winding up the fund under certain conditions under Section 18. You have, under other sections, provision made that the board may accept contributions of various kinds and if this fund is successful in carrying out the work, which is the hope of the American Government and the Irish Government, it will need what voluntary contributions it can get to the interest that accrues to it each year on the capital fund of £500,000.

Mr. D. Costello

Is it envisaged then that it is to live within its income?

Mr. Aiken

No. There is provision for the board's acceptance of further funds apart from its annual income on foot of the interest from the capital fund.

Mr. D. Costello

Apart from the gift, it will live on the interest of securities?

Mr. Aiken

I do not think that the Americans who will become members of the board will have any difficulty with the Irish name. They are accustomed to that. They would be three American citizens and they will very quickly get to know the Irish name. It would be a departure from the very good practice that has been established. These boards are known by their Irish name and their Irish name alone and I certainly would not like to depart from that practice in this Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 4th December, 1957.

Notice taken that 20 Members were not present; House counted, and 20 Members being present,