Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 16 Feb 1984

Vol. 348 No. 1

Adjournment Debate. - Risk to National Treasures.

Mr. G. Brady

I should like to thank the Chair for affording me this opportunity to raise this matter of extreme urgency and importance to the nation. I am pleased to see present Deputy Nealon, the Minister of State who is in charge of this area, responsibility having been transferred from the Department of Education — a welcome move.

Within a stone's throw of the Chamber lie some of our greatest treasures. I do not think it is fully appreciated or understood the wealth of treasure we have discovered and what lies beneath our soil. In an educated climate it is difficult to understand how, in this day and age, we can continue to neglect our National Museum. Such a scandal or outrage in any other country would result in severe protests to the Government or the person responsible for caring for such treasures. I am not finger-pointing any person in particular for the neglect that exists. This has been tolerated for a long time.

I should like to sketch the history of our National Museum. The latter years of the 18th century were the golden years in the development of artefacts and interest in our national culture and heritage. We had the establishment of the Royal Irish Academy in 1785. This was the cornerstone in the effort to salvage our national heritage. Among the principal finds of that academy were the Cross of Cong, the Tara Brooch and the Ardagh Chalice. Those great treasures were bequeathed to the National Museum ni 1890 and are still housed in the building in Merrion Street. In about 1920 the National Museum of Ireland was compressed or mangled into the totally unsuitable building where the treasures are kept now. The lamentable state of the brickwork of the building is symptomatic of the rot and decay of some of the treasures in the museum.

We are all aware that the museum is staffed by courteous and co-operative people. Those of us who have called to the museum to see the great treasures that are not on display but are housed in backrooms will vouch for that. However, they are expected to work in a situation which, to coin a phrase, has become fossilised and has not kept pace with modern technology or attitudes to museums. It is so appalling that we must demand urgent action.

Within arm's length of the National Museum lies the Natural History Museum which is in a shocking condition. The museums have not been allowed to expand. The visiting committees of the museums have been submitting reports regularly on the state of artefacts, treasures, and hoards that lie within their vaults, but they have been set aside. The answer to all appeals has been that money is not available, the Irish "it will do" philosophy, "file it away and maybe somebody else will sort out the problem". The predicament in the museum has reached crisis point. I appeal to the Minister of State — in the context of national importance I believe a demand would not be out of place although I recognise that he must receive many demands — to conduct as a priority an immediate inquiry into the treasures that are under risk of rotting because of bad air conditioning. He must also inquire into the conditions under which our folklore treasures are stored in Daingean and the furniture and basement store collections. I am sure the Minister is aware that the latter are under threat of flooding.

I cannot speak too strongly about the amount of treasure that has come from the Viking Wood Quay site that is stored here, there and everywhere. There is an urgent need for a Government inquiry in regard to the items under risk. Adequate accommodation is needed. The existing accommodation is bursting at the seams and does not lend itself to a good working atmosphere to examine any of the hoards that arrive. They are packaged and put away. A recent report gave details of the enormous amount of rented accommodation that is used in the city. That accommodation has been built to modern specifications and I am told it can be converted easily to satisfy the highest security needs if some of the artefacts are placed there. They should be transferred to such accommodation catalogued and not allowed to rot away.

In yesterday's issue of The Irish Times the condition of some of the artefacts was outlined. It is ludicrous that in a country that possesses close on 150,000 monuments our urban authorities in the major cities do not have an archaeologist on the staff. Why is it that a city the size of Dublin does not have its own archaeologist? Had we had such an official we would not have had the Wood Quay saga. I can recall that during the excavation of the Wood Quay site there was utter confusion and an amount of misguided advice because the professonal staff were not available.

There are many young archaeologists only too willing to work for a low salary given the opportunity to chronicle our treasures and carry out field work commensurate with the course they pursued at university. I have been told that there is an urgent need for professional restorers in certain areas in the museum.

For nearly four-and-a half years I have been trying to improve the display of the numismatic collection in the National Museum. Unquestionably, we have there one of the best numismatic collections, but many of our coins and great treasures never see the light of day. It is not just a question of cost either. I went into that during my very brief term in office. It is a question of changing that archaic system, putting some life into it and letting fresh air in, as well as improving people's attitudes.

Young people are very conscious of our great treasures but people do not realise how bad conditions in our museums are. Anybody can go into the art section or any of the inner rooms to see how our collections are stored. Look at our collection of musical instruments. I even worry about the security aspect because there are many professional international thieves at work.

The "Treasures of Ireland Exhibition" has been a marvellous advertisement for Ireland and has served its purpose very well, although there has been a certain amount of criticism of the security precautions taken. The appalling conditions in the museum should be highlighted and simple things can be done to improve efficiency there. I hope the Minister will not say that to improve the situation would cost so much or that there is an embargo on staff, because there are many interested voluntary and highly respected bodies who would be willing to do this work. A lot of unskilled labour is needed to assist in archaeological work and this is not being provided.

There are approximately 150,000 monuments in the country. Was the Minister at the recent exhibition in the Royal Irish Acadamy where they said that an average of 30 per cent of our monuments have been destroyed? Forty-four per cent of the earthworks have been destroyed. If this trend continues, by the end of the century the situation will be irretrievable. We have to take cognisance of this problem here and now. In America they build monuments to their past which goes back 250 years. We had a flourishing gold industry that manufactured fine gold fibulae and other fine artefacts and exported them 2,500 years B.C., 4,500 years ago.

We should highlight all our treasures. The example should come from the top. The Minister should give a commitment that he is prepared to hold a Government inquiry. This problem exists and is getting worse day by day. The Minister should seek accommodation for our treasures and then involve more archaeologists and trained staff to supplement existing staff. I realise there are pressures on every Government Department but if the Minister turned a very small percentage of present inefficiency and lack of productivity into a positive effect in our National Museum, this would percolate through all the small provincial museums who look to Dublin for example. All these small museums which are focal points for tourists would improve.

The entire Government Building complex is totally unsuitable to Government needs, let alone the museum being suitable to their needs. Ideally what is needed is a culture centre for this city. I have gone through the museum and spent time seeking where improvements could be made, and an enormous amount can be done to improve conditions there. I would like to see a detailed listing of treasures at risk at the moment. Do not be afraid to put these treasures on display. The Ceann Comhairle might be the person to lead a delegation into the museum so that we could see at first hand just how bad the situation is. This might inculcate some type of awareness in the minds of people who have the authority to make decisions. Young people doing civics at school do not understand the destruction of our national monuments and the fact that mediaeval vestments are rotting in our museum. We could call on the many young people looking for work and interested bodies to help.

I would like to refer to the material from the Wood Quay site. I was tacitly promised that there would be a museum built at Wood Quay, but I do not know if that was to placate the 45,000 conscientious objectors who marched at that time. The Government have an opportunity to construct some area of the city specifically for that purpose. We have a golden history; our treasure is enormous. What we have found is wonderful and what we have to find is even more exciting.

Even more exciting has been the Derrynaflan chalice which aroused tremendous interest amongst our people. The Minister will get the fullest co-operation in his new task. I look forward to his reply and I would plead with him to give the commitments I have sought this afternoon.

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Mr. Nealon)

I share totally the Deputy's concern about the serious problems that exist in our National Museum. Of course these have been referred to in annual reports of the board of visitors for many years. Successive administrations down the years have failed to take adequate steps, or any substantial steps at all, to tackle these problems or to alleviate them. On a quiet Thursday afternoon I would not attempt to be contentious but it is an historical fact that the Deputy's party were longer in office than were mine. Irrespective of that, all of us have been desperately remiss about the National Museum.

I am pleased to be able to tell the Deputy — he asked me for this assurance — that the Government have recognised the urgent need to face up to the critical situation. If you like, as one manifestation of that recognition, at the time of the formation of the Government there was the appointment of a Minister of State responsible for Arts and Culture. As the Deputy said, during the past fortnight a variety of functions in the arts and cultural area have been transferred to the Department of the Taoiseach, to me, including the National Museum for which I now have responsibility.

I realise fully the task facing me in this is enormous, one of gigantic proportions. The Deputy himself had very tough words to say about the conditions obtaining there. I would say he has not or has only slightly exaggerated the difficulties that exist. But, in addition to difficulties, there is enormous potential and possibilities. Personally I look forward very much to the challenge confronting me there. This is something in which I have been immersed for the past week and, in that way, I have come to realise the task facing me. I do not think any sort of casual observation from the outside makes it obvious just how much work needs to be done there. I can assure the House that the National Museum will be given priority by me. It is the main area on which I must focus my attention as far as my responsibilities for Arts and Culture are concerned.

Of course most of the problems arising in the National Museum are from a chronic shortage of accommodation, inadequate staffing resources and lack of development finance. As the Deputy said, a lot can be done by concentration and attention to the problems. It would be a mistake to give the impression that these difficulties give the impression that these difficulties which have existed for so long can be resolved overnight or that large amounts of additional finance will be readily available having regard to the general budgetary situation. They are the facts that we face but that does not mean that a lot cannot be done. On the accommodation situation, to which the Deputy very rightly referred, some exciting possibilities exist in that area. I am confident that we can make substantial inroads into the problems over the next few years. At the same time, of course, I intend preparing a longer term developmental plan to restore the National Museum to its rightful place as a prime, national heritage institution. In that respect I would hope that the possessions and the treasures there would be made more accessible in provincial areas through the setting up of permanent or temporary exhibition centres there. That is an element of the treasures, the various collections that we have, of the great inheritance we have, that they should be made more readily accessible and not confined solely, if you like, to the capital city. That is something with which the National Museum people themselves would agree.

I do not think it would really be appropriate at this stage to discuss all the details of specific defects arising in the various divisions of the National Museum. Some have been outlined by the Deputy and, as he knows, there are more that have not been touched on. In the main they stem from the fundamental problems I have already mentioned. Of course it is a fact, and is of interest to the House, that this institution in itself has, in part, been responsible for the accommodation difficulties that have arisen in the National Museum because the expansion of the facilities of this House over the years deprived the National Museum of very valuable space. But both institutions have suffered from severe accommodation problems. Deputies are aware of the difficulties that existed here for anybody attempting to do his daily work in the accommodation that existed previously before our expansion into new areas. However, further encroachment into the National Museum would clearly raise the question of its viability in its present location. It is time there was an overall truce in this area. The accommodation in Leinster House has certainly improved enormously.

Since assuming responsibility for the National Museum over the past ten days or so I have already been in contact with the President of the Board of Visitors. The Deputy will be glad to know that I will be meeting them next week to discuss the condition and future of the National Museum. While I need no urging to recognise the realities, I shall listen carefully as much to the views of the visitors as to the suggestions for improvement. Indeed I am also very grateful for the ideas put forward by the Deputy himself whom I know to be a great sponsor and patron of things dealing with arts and culture. I meet him regularly at the theatre, in galleries or in the National Museum. I shall be delighted to have examined any suggestion emanating from anywhere. This is an area in which nobody, not even the experts in the field, has a monopoly of wisdom; great ideas, good ideas can come from anywhere.

May I assure the Deputy also that I will be willing to explore the possibilities of voluntary experts coming giving a hand. I shall also be willing to explore the whole field of sponsorship which is something we must consider so far as this is concerned so that we reap proper value from the treasures and collections we have, only a percentage of which are now accessible to the public. Of course this can also be of benefit to the people who would be involved in sponsorship. This is another area I will be actively exploring. There are exciting possibilities.

I do not think I would go along with the idea of a Government inquiry. We know the problems. From my relatively brief study of this area I know of the vast problems and the Deputy outlined many of the most serious problems obtaining. It is not a question of knowing the problems but rather one of doing something about them. This is something to which we must now apply our minds and certainly I shall be doing so.

The Deputy said that we might perhaps lead a delegation of Deputies to see the situation there. I should prefer to do it in another way. Over the next couple of years there will be a big change in the National Museum situation. That is one of the tasks I have been given. At the end of that period I think the Deputy will be very pleased to see our endeavours.

I am thankful to the Deputy for having raised this matter because it can be of benefit to the National Museum, which is of concern to us all.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.30 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 21 February 1984.