By agreement it is proposed that, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, statements in relation to the Action Programme for Education may be made today subject to: (1) with the exception of the Minister for Education no Member shall make more than one statement; (2) the statements of the opening speakers for the Government and Opposition parties shall not exceed 60 minutes; (3) the statements of each subsequent speaker shall not exceed 30 minutes; and (4) if at 7 p.m. the statements are in progress, business will be interrupted to take No. 53 (Private Members' Business) and the statements will not be resumed thereafter today. Private Members' Business will be No. 53.
Order of Business.
I should like to put a very reasonable request to the Chair. I am anxious to know why a Private Notice Question of mine on unemployment, and the rapid deterioration in that position that took place yesterday with the announcement of the February trends and of many more closures, was ruled out of order on the basis that it lacked the urgent importance necessary.
I will not have a speech on the matter.
Surely no subject commands such urgency as this.
I ruled the question out as not meeting the prescribed cirteria in accordance with Standing Orders and precedents.
I should like to ask further——
There can be no further discussion on this.
I am sure every Member agrees that this is a subject of the greatest national importance. Will the Chair indicate to me what other means I have of raising this issue?
I think it only proper that I should at this stage, and for the purpose of removing doubt and to clairify the position, specify what may or may not be raised on the Order of Business.
Is this not a departure from precedent?
It is not.
I suggest it is.
I feel that I should once again draw the attention of Members to the Standing Order relating to the Order of Business. That Standing Order provides
The Taoiseach shall have the right to determine the order in which Government business shall appear on the Order Paper and, by announcement at the commencement of public business, the order in which it shall be taken each day.
What is involved is simply an announcement by the Taoiseach and strictly speaking, there should be neither comment nor question.
Each of my predecessors over many years, however has allowed questions of a nature which he considered could be relevantly raised on the Order of Business. The practice which grew up was crystallised by one of my predecessors at Volume 326, columns 541 and 543. The principal points made by him on that occasion were that: questions may be asked about the business of the day; about the taking of other business on the Order Paper; about business that the Government have promised to bring forward; about arrangements for sittings, and as to when Bills or other documents needed in the House will be circulated.
He ruled that other matters were disorderly and could not be raised on the Order of Business. I have indicated already to the House that I agree with his ruling. Indeed, the longer I am in the Chair the more satisfied I am that the ruling was and remains a fair one as our procedure at present stands. Indeed, as my predecessor pointed out if a Member wishes to have procedure changed the matter should be raised at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. I have been asked on many occasions when Deputies can raise this, that and the other and the following statement contains the answer.
Deputies are aware that there are many procedures available to them to raise matters in an orderly way. They can ask Questions on ordinary notice. If the matter is of urgent public importance a question may be tabled on very short notice indeed. A Member may raise a matter for discussion on the ordinary half hour Adjournment or, exceptionally, under Standing Order 30. In this Dáil we have had a number of topical discussions by agreement between the Whips. We are having one such discussion today. Then there is Private Members' time where a large number of Members support the raising of a matter.
In conclusion I would earnestly appeal to Members to co-operate with the Chair in applying the procedure as it stands. If they feel strongly that the procedure should be reviewed they can, as I have already said, bring the matter before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Arising out of what the Chair has said I should like to ask him to repeat the part of his statement about the capacity of the Opposition to raise matters under Standing Order 30. The Chair in his statement seemed to indicated that the Opposition have the facility under Standing Order 30, in addition to the time available to them in Private Members' Time. Can the Chair reconcile that with his decision last week to refuse the Opposition permission to raise something under Standing Order 30 because they could raise it in Private Members' Time?
I am surprised that Deputy Haughey should seek to engage in an argument on a statement I have read. I will read the paragraph again. It was:
Deputies are aware that there are many procedures available to them to raise matters in an orderly way. They can ask Questions on ordinary notice [that is three or four days notice.] If the matter is of urgent public importance a question may be tabled on very short notice indeed [a couple of hours as we had today when three questions were allowed]. A Member may raise a matter for discussion on the ordinary half hour Adjournment [I think we have had one of those each day that the Dáil sat] or, exceptionally, under Standing Order 30. [Standing Order 30 speaks for itself, subject to the interpretation by the Chair]. In this Dáil we have had a number of topical discussions by agreement between the Whips. We are having one such discussion today. Then there is Private Members' Time where a large number of Members may support the raising of a matter.
I have listened carefully, Sir, to what you have said and I think I heard very clearly your reference to Private Notice Questions and issues that can be raised and that they needed to be of urgent national importance. Surely my question on unemployment and yesterday's deterioration meets that criterion and there can be nothing of more urgent national importance than the question I tabled to you today.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
In accordance with precedent and Standing Orders it does not. If Deputy Fitzgerald wishes to come to my office I will spell out the reasons to him.
Why not here?
(Interruptions.)
There are 215,000 reasons why it should be raised.
Precedent lays down that you cannot have a discussion on the Ceann Comhairle's ruling.
(Interruptions.)
I wish to give notice of my intention to raise on the Adjournment——
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Fitzgerald, please be seated.
May I have your permission to raise on the Adjournment the question of unemployment or do you want to sweep it under the carpet?
You may ask that question when Deputy Molloy has finished his question and sits down.
(Interruptions.)
Order.
I wish to give notice of my intention to raise on the Adjournment a question to the Taoiseach as follows: will he confirm that he gave an address to the Army Command and Staff School in the Curragh Camp yesterday, will he state the reasons why he gave this address and will he make a copy of it available to the Opposition parties in this House?
The Chair will communicate with Deputy Molloy.
May I now raise on the Adjournment the important subject matter of the question I tabled, the deterioration yesterday of the unemployment situation?
The Chair will communicate with Deputy Fitzgerald.
I sought politely by way of Private Notice Question to ask the Taoiseach if he is aware of the continued danger to Irish fishermen posed by the presence of submarines in the Irish Sea and, in view of recent incidents, if he will immediately set up an inquiry to establish the reasons for the presence of the submarines and their countries of origin. I have been told that this lacks urgency. I cannot understand that and maybe, A Cheann Comhairle, you can help me. I feel that the loss of lives——
Deputy Byrne, you are out of order.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Byrne will resume his seat. Does he want permission to raise it on the Adjournment?
No, I am asking if you can help me. Can you tell me why you believe that the loss of life is not an urgent matter?
Deputy Byrne will resume his seat.
With your permission, Sir, I propose to raise on the Adjournment the following question: following the decision of Dáil Éireann on 15 February 1984, which called on the Government to take immediate action to protect the interest of members of the general public who place money on deposit with finance houses, provident societies and similar institutions, if any steps were taken in pursuance of that decision which might have prevented the financial crisis caused by the failure of a firm of stockbrokers announced in today's press.
The Chair will communicate with Deputy Flynn.
Again I seek to raise on the Adjournment the question of grants being denied to constituents by the Department of the Environment on the basis of information sometimes erroneously recorded in the local authorities.
The Chair will communicate with Deputy Mitchell.
I would like to raise on the Adjournment, with your permission, the closure of Youghal Carpets Ltd., Youghal, which I believe is due to the transfer of orders from Youghal Carpets Ltd. to Navan Carpets Ltd.
The Chair will communicate with Deputy Ahern.
I would like your permission to raise on the Adjournment of the House the continuing economic crisis for pig producers and the fact that the pigs and bacon industry is in imminent danger of collapse due to this.
(Interruptions.)
I wish to raise on the Adjournment the question of the proposed new vocational school for Killarney.
I have sought unsuccessfully to raise with the Minister for Labour on a number of occasions a matter regarding the employment of 60 non-nationals by the Dublin Gas Company. I have tried through Parliamentary Question and Private Notice Question——
If the Deputy will give me notice now, I will communicate with him.
I have already done that.
Are you making a further request?
As the Minister for Labour is here at present, will he make a comment on that situation?
No, I will not allow it.
With your permission, Sir, I wish to raise on the Adjournment the serious effect the importation of plasterboard from Spain and Italy is having on the employees of Gypsum Industries Ltd., Meath.
The Chair will communicate with Deputy Farrelly.