Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 31 Jan 1990

Vol. 395 No. 1

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Discipline in Schools.

John Bruton

Ceist:

5 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for Education the action she has taken on the recommendations of the report of the Committee on Discipline in Schools in respect of: (a) designating officials in her Department to develop links between primary and post-primary schools; (b) setting up local committees with the same objective; (c) including remedial education in all teacher training; (d) holding special in-service courses for teachers to help them in coping with discipline problems; (e) the formulation of a written and legally enforceable code of discipline in schools which would be available to parents and which would underpin decisions taken by school authorities; (f) allowing schools to make direct referrals to child guidance services and (g) providing a variety of improved facilities to schools with a high concentration of discipline problems.

Jimmy Deenihan

Ceist:

104 Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Education, in view of the indecision and lack of clarity concerning the disciplinary sanctions which are permissible at primary school level, if she has any plans to introduce a specific code of discipline in primary schools.

John Connor

Ceist:

153 Mr. Connor asked the Minister for Education if her attention has been drawn to the increasing number of disciplinary incidents in primary and secondary schools directly related to overcrowding in classrooms and other difficulties arising from the cutbacks; and the action she proposes to take to remove the legal uncertainties in which teachers find themselves when they attempt to deal with disciplinary problems in their schools.

Minister for Education (Mrs. O'Rourke)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 5, 104 and 153 together.

The position regarding the recommendations in question is as follows:

(a) and (b) The question of designating officials of my Department with responsibility for development of links between the primary and post-primary levels will be reviewed in the light of the report of the Primary Education Review Body. The establishment of effective links between individual primary and post-primary schools is essentially a local matter. My Department's inspectors monitor the situation in their own districts.

(c) The report's recommendations on pre-service training have already been taken into account by the colleges of education in their training.

(d) In the autumn of 1988 my Department organised seminars for all primary school principals entitled "Discipline and Good Relationships in Schools". The seminars were designed to enable principal teachers to pass on the benefits of the course to the other teachers in their schools.

(e) The report of the Committee on Discipline in Schools did not recommend that my Department draw up "a written and legally enforceable code of discipline". It proposed that each school draw up its own code of discipline in consultation with parents and this was provided for in Circular 7/88, which my Department issued to schools in March 1988. A review of the operation of the provisions of the circular was promised and this is being carried out at present, in consultation with the interested parties.

(f) The question of facilitating direct referral by schools of pupils to child guidance services provided by the health boards is one in the main for the health services.

(g) In relation to improved facilities recommended in the report, I have recently allocated 95 additional teaching posts for primary schools in disadvantaged areas together with an additional 30 remedial teaching posts. I am also having arrangements made for the early establishment of pilot projects for schools psychological services at primary level.

In so far as post-primary schools are concerned, the managerial authority of the school is responsible for ensuring that a fair and efficient code of discipline is drawn up and applied in the school. Guidelines for post-primary schools were issued in March 1988.

Mr. J. Bruton

Will the Minister agree that teachers, school principals and boards of management are facing acute difficulty at the moment in that they do not know whether they have an adequate legal basis for disciplinary decisions they must make, for example, in regard to the suspension of a student, in the light of the constitutional rights to education and the requirements of the School Attendance Act, and that it is not good enough for the Minister to say this is something that should be dealt with by individual boards of management? Will she agree they do not have the legal resources available to them that she has in her Department and that the Department should take the lead in giving schools legal guidance as to their rights in this matter so that we do not have uncertainty where disciplinary decision will be fought out in the courts rather than the Minister doing her job and acting on the report which I believe is on her desk.

Mrs. O'Rourke

The Deputy's last statement is quite untrue. The report of which he speaks is not on my desk and let that be on the record of this House. He asked that the Department take the lead. We have done just so. A review of the operation of the circular on the code of discipline was promised. This is being carried out at present in consultation with the interested parties who include the groupings of whom the Deputy has just spoken here in the House, that is, the teachers, management and the parents.

Mr. J. Bruton

Will the Minister agree that if she wished to have a decision on this matter she could have taken it quickly and she should not hide behind yet another review committee? Will she agree further that there will not be great confidence in the review she has now mentioned in view of the fact that in respect of the pre-existing committee on discipline no action has been taken by her Department on designating an official of her Department to develop links between primary and secondary schools, no action has been taken on the setting up of local committees and no action has been taken on allowing schools to make direct referrals to child guidance services? In view of the inaction documented in her reply to this question on the committee on discipline who reported some years ago, what confidence is there——

An Ceann Comhairle

I have appealed for brevity. Again, appealing for brevity, if we dwell unduly long on this question it is clearly to the disadvantage of other priority questions lower down on the Order Paper.

Mrs. O'Rourke

That is entirely at Deputy Bruton's behest. I say to him that I hide behind nobody's skirts or trousers. The very people about whom he has waxed eloquently in the House, that is the parents, the management and the teachers, are the very people with whom my Department are now consulting as per the promises made in that review. Now the Deputy wants to sweep to one side the democratic process as promised and make unilateral decisions.

Mr. J. Bruton

The Minister should get on with her job.

Mrs. O'Rourke

That will not be the way I do my business. The Deputy is all sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Mr. J. Bruton

Get on with the work now.

(Interruptions.)

John Bruton

Ceist:

6 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for Education if she is satisfied that teachers and school management obtain sufficient legal and welfare service support from her Department in dealing with school discipline problems.

Mrs. O'Rourke

The revised regulations and guidelines on discipline in national schools, originally prepared by Deputy Cooney when Minister, issued to school authorities in 1988 were prepared having regard to the respective legal positions of the various parties involved in school disciplinary matters and following full consultations with their representative bodies. We are all for democracy. This document, Circular 7/88, is currently being reviewed and rela-ted-school discipline problems raised by the representative bodies will be considered in full consultation with those bodies.

In the case of post primary schools, guidelines on discipline were issued to post primary schools in March 1988. These guidelines indicate that school management is responsible for ensuring that a fair and efficient code of discipline applies in the school.

In the small percentage of cases where school authorities have experienced serious difficulties in resolving discipline problems, the Inspectorate and/or Psychological Service of my Department have endeavoured to assist in resolving the difficulties. The general experience has been that these difficulties have been amenable in the main to resolution within the school context.

The management authorities of post primary schools would be expected to seek their own legal advice where such advice was necessary.

An Ceann Comhairle

I now call Deputy John Bruton.

Mr. J. Bruton

Let us press on.