It is proposed to take: 4c. Motion re Joint Committee on Enterprise, Small Business and Tourism; 4d. Motion re appointment of Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business; 4e. Motion re appointment of Joint Committee on Tourism, Sport and Recreation; 4f. Motion re appointment of Members to Committees; (2) Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands (Powers and Functions) Bill, 1997, Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; and (12) Statements regarding the Annual Report of the EU's Drug Monitoring Service (resumed). It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders that 4c, 4d, 4e and 4f, shall be moved together and shall be decided without debate by one question.
Order of Business.
There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with items 4c, 4d, 4e and 4f agreed to? Agreed.
On Item 12 which concerns the problem of drug abuse, will the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform speak in the debate, and will he deal in the debate with the matter raised by Deputies Higgins and McManus about the enforcement of the law on drug abuse and the failure of agencies under his control to deal adequately with this matter? Does he accept responsibility politically for this?
The nomination of District Court judges to carry out specific functions under the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act is a matter for the President of the District Court. It would be inappropriate for me to comment.
Does the Minister have responsibility to the House for the Garda Síochána? Will he speak on the role of the Garda Síochána in this matter in the debate which is to take place today? Will the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, who has been very free in the past in demanding accountability from others, accept his share of accountability in the House in a debate which, happily, will take place?
The content of what the Minister might or might not say is not a matter for the Order of Business.
I am sure the Tánaiste would wish to assist the House in this matter.
The Garda Síochána do an outstanding job in these matters. The Deputy knows the Executive has no function in this. It is not an administrative error. It has nothing to do with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, and nothing to do with the Executive.
(Interruptions.)
Is the Tánaiste saying the Minister has no responsibility for the Garda Síochána?
We cannot debate this issue now. We are on the Order of Business and only questions appropriate to the Order of Business will be allowed.
Can the Tánaiste indicate whether the Government will ensure the Minister for Justice will avail of the opportunity of the debate that is scheduled for today to make a statement to this House to explain to a public that simply cannot believe what has happened, what in fact has happened and what actions he might wish to take in the future? That is what is relevant on the Order of Business. Will this Minister, who never kept his mouth shut when in Opposition, open it in Government?
These matters can be debated later when we deal with the relevant item. They cannot be debated now.
Zero responsibility.
Will the Tánaiste agree the constituency we share is ravaged by drugs? Some hope was provided at the weekend when the Minister for Justice posed among the flower pots during the £3 million seizure but this has been reduced to a shambles by the release of the five men—
By the courts.
Three of these men are still at large.
I have ruled on this matter.
It is an extremely serious matter.
The Deputy is not treating it seriously.
I invite the Tánaiste to imagine the rampage by Deputy O'Donoghue if this had taken place when the previous Government was in office.
(Interruptions.)
We have heard about zero tolerance but now we have zero competence.
Will the Deputy please resume his seat?
He is not treating the matter seriously.
The conduct and competence of the Minister for Justice on this matter — there was a similar incident in Glasnevin five weeks ago when cannabis worth £1.5 million—
The Chair is on his feet and the Deputy should resume his seat.
I am delighted the Ministers, Deputies Jacob and Moffatt, regard this as a matter of amusement. However, when children are dying from drugs it is not a matter of amusement.
Please, Deputy.
The Deputy has no regard for the Chair or the House.
The Deputy can go back to poteen drinking. I am talking about illegal drugs.
Will the Deputy please resume his seat? Are there any other questions on the Order of Business?
Can I have an answer to my question?
Not on the Order of Business.
(Interruptions.)
In view of the disorder I am suspending the sitting for 15 minutes.
The Minister for Justice is sitting on his hands.
Sitting suspended at 10.45 a.m. and resumed at 11 a.m.
I wish to withdraw from the Order Paper the Electoral (Amendment) Bill, 1997, in my name.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
I would be grateful if you, a Cheann Comhairle, would reconsider your ruling under Standing Order 31 and if the Tánaiste would reconsider what she said about the courts being responsible for what happened. Evidence has come to my notice that section 4 was not complied with—
There can be no further discussion of that matter.
—in that a superintendent of the Garda did not present the necessary evidence.
The Deputy should be aware of the rules of this House. He is not entitled to speak when the Chair is on his feet. I rule that the matter is not in order. There is an item on today's business dealing with that issue. I will not enter into argument with any Deputy on this matter. I have ruled on it and that position stands.
A statement was made by the Tánaiste blaming the courts, but the Garda Síochána did not comply with section 4.
We are dealing with the Order of Business and I am endeavouring to chair this discussion.
The Minister for Justice made statements on this matter that are not correct. Section 4 was not complied with by the Garda Síochána, who are responsible to this House through the Minister for Justice.
The Deputy should not speak when the Chair is on his feet.
I am sorry, Sir, you felt obliged to adjourn the House. I will try to be as compliant as possible. Did the Tánaiste have an opportunity during the recess to discuss with the Minister for Justice whether he intends to contribute to the debate this afternoon?
That question is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
The assignment of functions under the Drug Trafficking Act, which was sponsored and put through this House by Deputy Bruton's Government, is a matter for the President of the District Court. In response to Deputy Quinn, the Minister for Justice is prepared to make a statement on these matters.
Did the Garda comply with section 4? Was the superintendent present as requested? If not, the Minister for Justice is responsible.
We should not enter into discussion on the issue at this stage.
The previous Minister for Justice was blamed by the then Opposition for the failings of the Garda Síochána. The same standards of political accountability should apply now.
I remind the Deputy the Chair is on his feet. He should resume his seat. The Leader of the Opposition should show good example.
It is customary for the Ceann Comhairle to allow people to speak in the House.
The Leader of the Opposition is totally ignoring the rules of this House.
The Leader of the Opposition should be allowed to speak. You are not serving the House by silencing me on this matter.
There will be an opportunity to raise the matter at a later stage. The Deputy may speak when he is in order, but he is not in order in raising the matter at this stage.
A statement was made by the Tánaiste which is incorrect and I am inviting her to correct it.
We must abide by Standing Orders.
In view of the fact that section 4 was not complied with by a superintendent of the Garda Síochána—
If the Deputy does not resume his seat and Members continue to blatantly ignore the rulings of the Chair, I will have no option but to suspend the House again.
The Minister for Justice is politically accountable for the Garda Síochána. The Tánaiste should correct her statement on the record.
I will not allow the Deputy to continue to completely ignore the rulings of the Chair. If there is to be order in the House the Chair should be respected.
I am very unhappy with the way the Chair interrupted me, whereas other Deputies were allowed make their points.
The Chair does not interrupt. I must intervene to ensure the rules of the House are kept by Members.
That should apply across the board. It should apply to all Members.
Is there any justice here? There is certainly none in the country.
I withdraw a remark I aimed at the Minister of State, Deputy Jacob. I apologise for that.
It would be fair enough if the Tánaiste pointed to the separation of responsibility of the courts and the Executive, but in reply to Deputy Bruton she said the Executive was not accountable for the shambles that has taken place.
As I pointed out to the Deputy previously, we cannot pursue that matter further on the Order of Business.
There is no more serious issue confronting the House than this shambles.
There will be a debate on the matter this evening. We have to dispose of the Order of Business. We will reach the item on the agenda much sooner if Deputies abide by the rulings of the Chair.
We had the spectacle of the Minister for Justice posing among potted plants while the five responsible people were released as a result of a shambles.
Will the Deputy resume his seat?
Deputy Ahern, as Leader of the Opposition, was allowed considerable latitude to raise matters on the Order of Business by your predecessor.
Deputy Bruton would not change Standing Orders despite promptings from the House.
The Deputy should not cast reflections on the Chair. I am trying to do a difficult job.
This is not a good development.
I give notice that it is the intention of my party to raise this matter on the Adjournment today.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
We are talking about a life and death matter and even though the Minister may contribute during the course of the debate on the EU Drugs Monitoring Service, that is not satisfactory. Would you consider allowing a private notice question on the matter during which time the Minister could make a statement and answer key questions regarding what happened?
The Deputy should put down a question.
In view of the point made by Deputy Bruton that section 4 of the Act was not complied with—
The Deputy has until 2.30 p.m. to table a question.
The Chair cannot give what would amount to a blank cheque in that regard. The matter will be considered.
The Tánaiste made a categoric statement that this is a matter for the courts. She is wrong, she has been misinformed by the Minister for Justice.
On a different issue, does the Tánaiste intend to make a statement in the House regarding the possible loss of more than 300 jobs by the closure of the Premier Dairies plant in Rathfarnham arising from the Waterford-Avonmore merger? Does she intend to intervene in this case? Large sections of the plant were constructed in recent months at a cost of approximately £2 million?
That is not appropriate to the Order of Business. There is another way the Deputy can raise the matter.
More than 300 families in my constituency may lose their jobs before Christmas. I thought the Tánaiste might be willing to respond on an issue of such importance. I am disappointed she has nothing to say on the matter.
The matter does not arise now.
Does the Government propose to take action on the concerns of the residents of Little Island in Cork, one of whom is threatening to go on hunger strike because of the refusal of the Minister for the Environment to even meet them to discuss the location of a sewage treatment plant for Cork city?
That matter does not arise on the Order of Business.
When does the Government intend to present to the House a White Paper on adult education? Does the Tánaiste agree the additional £70,000 made available for adult literacy this year is a poor signal of the Government's intention in that area? At a time when there are 700,000 people with literacy problems, the Government has provided 10p extra to deal with the problem.
That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
A White Paper has always been appropriate.
There are other ways for the Deputy to raise that matter.
There is a precedent. The White Paper on Foreign Affairs was raised at length when Deputy Spring was Minister for Foreign Affairs.
There are other ways by which the Deputy may raise the matter.
The Taoiseach said the Minister for the Environment and Local Government was considering legislating for seat belts on school buses. Has there been any further progress in that regard. There is overcrowding on second level school buses and substandard buses are in use. When will the Government publish the report on school transport? Will it include a section on the safety of school transport?
They are all substandard.
In response to Deputy Richard Bruton, I would point out that policy proposals on literacy are being formulated by the Government and will be published as soon as possible. It is a priority for the Government in the context of the budget and measures will be brought forward. In reply to Deputy Naughten, policy proposals in that area will be published before Christmas.
Given that including today there are ten sitting days left before the Christmas recess and there are 21 items of legislation on the Government's list, will the Tánaiste indicate how many of them it is intended to have completed between now and the recess?
I am not in a position to say how many will be completed. That is a matter for the Whips with regard to legislation that has been published. The intention is that everything promised will be completed if possible.
Given that budget day will be before Christmas, will the Government reconsider its decision and accept there is no reason for the House not to reconvene sooner than 28 January? The reason for a long delay after Christmas was always associated with preparation for the budget. It is a wilful waste of time not to bring House back sooner than 28 January.
They need a month to search for Deputy Reynolds.
Does Deputy Quinn need a break?
The proposed recess is the same as every other year but I presume the Whips can come to an agreement on this matter. Perhaps Deputy Quinn wishes to suggest another date.
I make the point in view of the difficulty the Government has in meeting its legislative timetable and having regard to the historical reason that the House reconvened late in January to allow for budgetary preparations. If the rest of the country will go back to work early in the new year, why cannot this House do the same?
There is an absence of cheers for that.
What is the position of the industrial and provident societies legislation? The limits under this legislation are so out of date that many of these societies are unable to function properly. When will the Tánaiste introduce legislation in this regard?
In response to Deputy Quinn's request for an early return, he will need a lot of time after the great budget the Government will propose on 3 December before he will be able to function again.
The only buzz will be the sound of U-turns and somersaults.
In reply to Deputy John Bruton, that legislation will be available sometime between the middle and end of 1998.
I congratulate the Government on the reports that it is to adopt the tax policy of Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Democratic Left—
That is a good joke.
In light of the almost daily reports of the sexual abuse of children may I ask the Tánaiste, in the absence of the Minister for Education and Science, if she will inquire from him why he has abandoned the programme for relationships and sexuality education in schools which was prepared by the last Government?
That matter does not arise on the Order of Business.
May I have a report from the Minister for Arts, Culture, Gaeltacht and the Islands? Minister of State, Éamon Ó Cuív, visited Caideal Teoranta in Tourmakeady, County Mayo, a few weeks ago and promised it a rosy future. Since then 90 workers have been on a three day week. I want a report from the Minister on the future of the company and its workers in this extremely disadvantaged area.
Will the Tánaiste explain the delay in introducing the Children Bill and will she guarantee that it will be introduced before Christmas?
I cannot give the Deputy a guarantee as work is still in progress on it.
It was promised that it would be introduced before Christmas. The Bill was circulated prior to the last election.
It is the intention to introduce it before Christmas but I do not want to give guarantees since we only have ten working days left according to Deputy Quinn.
According to the Government.
Will it be given priority? We have already waited a number of years for this Bill and it was circulated some months ago. What is the reason for the delay?
The Government is making amendments to the proposals published by the previous Government. It clearly is a priority.
It is not.
I accept what the Deputy says about the urgency in bringing forward this legislation. A motion has been tabled to restore it to the Order Paper. The intention is to introduce it but I cannot guarantee it will happen before Christmas.
I am amazed by that reply. Will the Tánaiste agree that after 20 years' of gestation the Children Bill was brought before the House for a Second Reading last February and that only because of the non co-operation of the current Minister for Justice and Minister of State it would have been in Committee before the general election? Will she explain why, despite the attempted harassment of me as Minister of State with special responsibility for children to have this Bill introduced, nine months have elapsed and no progress has been made?
Since it was published and debated.
Where is Senator Quill when the Tánaiste needs her?
We recognise this is a priority and moved a motion on 3 October to restore it to the Order Paper. We want to make sure we get it right and are making substantial amendments to the proposals of the previous Government, which takes time.
The Government is not making substantial amendments.
It is making improvements.
I want to point out to the Tánaiste—
The Deputy may not point out anything. He must ask a question.
Will the Tánaiste agree that when the previous Government left office the Bill was ready and that the only change proposed by the incoming Government was to separate the section of the Bill which dealt with child pornography? How can she possibly explain, on such an important matter and in view of certain developments currently taking place, that nine months have elapsed and no urgency is being shown in regard to it after 20 years?
Zero action. There is no legislation.
The Government is on a go slow.
I am conscious of the bitter dispute concerning rod licences a number of years ago.
The Deputy was also worried about Christmas holidays.
Is the Tánaiste aware that the Central Fisheries Board has offered free waters for sale around the country? Will current legislation allow that?
We cannot have interpretation of law.
It is a matter of Government policy.
Will legislation be introduced to prevent this? On my local river, where I traditionally fish, I will need 12 licences. Rivers are now for sale.
No legislation is promised in this regard.
It is outrageous that the Minister will not reply.
Deputy Barrett rose.
There are other Deputies before you. Deputy Mitchell is next. I will not leapfrog over other Deputies.
We have 54 Members.
Deputy Mitchell is a member of your party.
One never knows these days.
It is promised to circulate a White Paper on the Amsterdam Treaty in the near future and also one on defence. Will both be circulated at the same time because one may have a relationship with the other?
Both White Papers are being worked on. I cannot say they will be circulated together but they will be circulated as a matter of priority, as soon as possible.
Has the Government fixed a date for the referendum which flows from the Amsterdam Treaty and, if so, what is the date?
We have not fixed a precise date but it is hoped to have it in early spring.
Will it be in March?
We have not fixed a precise date but we are anxious to involve the other parties in a discussion in relation to that matter.
At what stage is the legislation for the establishment of the inland water service as an independent statutory body? A commitment to such legislation was in the programme of the parties which form the Government.
I am not aware that any specific legislation has been promised in this area.
Rivers are not her responsibility.
I am convinced that legislation was promised. Not only is it in the programme for the parties which form this precarious Government—
Wishful thinking.
—but it is specific. They promised an independent statutory agency. The initial agreement and early preparations for such legislation had been done in my Department before I left.
The Deputy is finding it hard to let go.
The Minister, Deputy de Valera, should ask her cousin.
It took four and a half years to implement it and we saw no legislation.
A Cheann Comhairle, earlier you prevented discussion on the incompetence of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on a very serious matter on the grounds that he could make a statement on the EU Drugs Monitoring Service report. You prevented this debate on the Order of Business. The first item of business is the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands (Powers and Functions) Bill. If this Bill runs the Minister for Justice will not be able to make a statement. What happens in relation to this very serious matter if this Bill continues all day?
Put down a Private Notice Question.
The Deputy is challenging my ruling.
This is a cop out by the Government who are preventing any debate on this issue. You are siding with them.
The Deputy should not raise that matter again. I call Deputy Ring.
Deputy Barrett rose.
The Deputy will resume his seat.
No, I will not. I asked a legitimate question.
(Interruptions.)
The Deputy will abide by the rules of this House and will not make his own rules.
This is not a dictatorship.
The Deputy should not refer to the Chair as a dictator. The Deputy will resume his seat and obey the rules of this House.
This is not a dictatorship.
I have the responsibility—
I will not be silenced.
The Deputy will be silenced and put outside this Chamber if he does not abide by the rules of this House. I call Deputy Ring for a final question on the Order of Business.
(Interruptions.)
My job is to implement the rules laid down by this House and not to take dictation from anyone.
You are protecting the Government.
That is another false charge. I ask the Deputy to withdraw that charge. It is unworthy of the Deputy.
When I see evidence of—
Will the Deputy withdraw that unjust charge? I am trying to do my duty.
When I see evidence that the—
The Deputy will withdraw that charge without qualification. It is a serious charge against the Chair.
You are ignoring the main Opposition party.
That is a serious charge and I have no option but to name Deputy Barrett.
I withdraw the charge.
Thank you Deputy.
Deputy Ahern was allowed to ask questions.
Does the Deputy want—
There will be no further comment on that matter.
We should have fairness.
The Deputy should not restate the charge.
We had to bite our tongues long enough over there and we did not cry like spoilt children.
The Deputy had his say when he was on this side.
We have been on the Order of Business almost one hour. I am trying to give the floor to a colleague of the Deputy, Deputy Ring.
I was silenced on this very issue.
The Deputy is preventing a colleague from contributing. If the Deputy continues to make these charges against the Chair I will have no option but to name him. Deputy Ring, please.
I have good news for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I compliment Deputy Rabbitte for finding Deputy Albert Reynolds.
That was yesterday's joke.