Vol. 1 No. 2
In accordance with Standing Order 85, the Clerk to the committee will send the following message to the Clerk of the Dáil:
The Select Committee on Finance and the Public Service has completed its consideration of the following Estimates for Public Services for the services of the year ending on 31 December 2002: Vote 5 - Central Statistics Office (Supplementary).
On behalf of the select committee, I thank the Minister and her officials for attending today's meeting.
On behalf of the select committee I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, and his officials. I suggest we follow the format agreed earlier, which is an opening statement of two minutes from the Minister of State, opening statements from the spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group of up to five minutes each and a question and answer session lasting 15 minutes. There will then be concluding remarks from the Minister of State, lasting approximately two minutes. We have circulated the schedule and we will proceed on that basis.
This is the second occasion on which I have addressed the committee within a short period. We are probably going to see a great deal of each other in the future. I am looking forward to working with the committee.
The Vote for the Houses of the Oireachtas and the European Parliament provides for the salaries of Members, staff of political parties and staff of the office and expenses - travel, telephone, postal televising, office machinery, office premises, public relations, incidentals, etc. - of the Houses. It covers grants-in-aid for interparliamentary activities, the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body, the former Members' pension fund and salaries and pensions for Irish Members of the European Parliament. The 2002 Estimate is €77.101 million and the Supplementary required is €107,000. That gives a Revised Estimate of €77.208 million, which is an increase of 0.1%.
The need for a Supplementary Estimate arises as there have been substantial excesses on certain subheads, amounting to €4.224 million. Fortunately, it has been possible to offset these excesses with savings elsewhere on the Vote totalling €4.117 million. There remains a shortfall in the funding of €107,000.
Significant excesses arise first in respect of legal and other expenses relating to the sub-committees of inquiry. I refer to the inquiry into the Abbeylara incident and the mini-CTC investigation. These amounted to an estimated increase of €731,000. The second major excess arose as a result of the general election, when a higher than anticipated number of former Members were not returned. Between severance and termination payments and pension liabilities, the estimated increase is €1.866 million. At the outset, the normal attrition rate of approximately 40 Members was expected. Unfortunately for some and fortunately for others, myself included, 55 new Deputies were elected. The third excess arises from sanctioned adjustments to the secretarial assistance scheme, including the provision of additional assistance, amounting to an estimated €1.108 million.
The most significant estimated saving arises in subhead A5, which relates to office machinery and other office supplies, and amounts to €3.078 million. The primary reason for this saving is that certain IT related projects and the anticipated procurement of certain printing equipment did not proceed as planned. I understand that the explanations of these savings were circulated to Members yesterday afternoon and I am sure they have digested them.
The Supplementary Estimate could be regarded as being technical in nature. Even if it had been possible to balance the books and not have any excess arising on the overall figure, the Supplementary Estimate would still be required as a result of the excess on subhead G - pension fund. This subhead is a grant-in-aid and it is not possible to vire moneys into a grant-in-aid. I had to inquire about the meaning of the word "vire" and I was informed that it is a legal term which indicates that it is not possible to change funds within a grant-in-aid. Hence, there is a technical need for a Supplementary Estimate. Any excess arising must be notified to Dáil Éireann and approved by it.
It is clear what has caused the overrun here. What is not clear is the impact of the postponement of certain IT related projects and the procurement of certain printing equipment. These postponements do not appear to be in the interest of the best operation of the Parliament. I would like the Minister of State to elaborate on that matter.
Next year, the committee is due to consider the Oireachtas Commission Bill. However, I see the Minister of State is making provision in his Estimate for a further cut in the budget of the Houses of the Oireachtas and the European Parliament. He proposes to knock approximately €500,000 off the budget. This is not a huge amount, but salaries and wages are not going to decrease next year. If we are to believe the Deloitte and Touche report on the operation of the Dáil and the inefficiency of the committee system, it would appear that we are going to have to take on more professional advice if we are to do the job we are paid to do. It is a mystery how the Minister of State can inform us he is going to make savings in the Houses of the Oireachtas budget next year. This seems to fly in the face of what the committee is debating at present. On one hand, he has informed us he is going to save money while, on the other, he stated that the Dáil needs to modernise and become an efficient Parliament, working to a high standard without the IT related projects or the sort of printing equipment which are the basic bread and butter of efficiency.
The Minister of State's predecessor presented the same contradiction. I have no difficulty with making savings, but I want to see some efficiency in the delivery of services. Savings must ensure that the Parliament does what it is supposed to do. However, it appears that Deputies are to be deprived of basic facilities such as IT and printing support and expected to service committees such as this one without professional support. I do not wish always to talk about ourselves, but who better than us understands that one cannot run a modern parliament without the necessary professional support?
Why did the Minister of State commission Deloitte and Touche, at considerable time and expense, to evaluate what we are doing wrong and immediately begin to chip away at the foundations of our existing resources? I do not understand the thinking of the Department. Do the Estimates merely represent the Minister of State's knee-jerk reaction to his senior Minister demanding Estimates which make it look as if we are making big savings next year? Does he believe any saving will do and that an inefficient parliament will do no harm to people who are sitting smugly in the Cabinet seats?
I understand the Department recently decided that all secretaries are to be recruited at the lowest starting point, whereas previously there was a distinction between people under the age of 24 and over. I am sure all Members would agree that secretarial assistants do a huge amount of work for them. If a Member wishes to recruit a secretary of substantial and recognisable experience and age, it should be possible to recruit that person at an appropriate incremental level. I understand the Department is claiming that it would be ageist to discriminate between people under and over 24 years but it should be possible, as it is in other grades of the Civil Service, to recruit at a certain level in respect of clearly demonstrated experience. If this is a definitive decision, it is very regrettable and will pose difficulties for Members. Also, while the general conditions and salaries of Deputies and Senators have improved substantially, there is a lack of funding for research, which is essential in a functioning Parliament.
I am deputising for Deputy Ó Caoláin.
The Estimates for administration, postal and communication services show a cut of 11%. The postal services Vote is to be reduced by €67,000 to €81,000, while telecommunications services are to be cut by €62,000. How is it proposed to make those savings? Is it not a false economy given the postal allowances for Members of both Houses are set to increase?
Also, what exactly is included in the miscellaneous expenses, which is set to rise from €97,000 to €652,000?
It is important that the services available to Members are kept at a high standard, particularly for Opposition Members. We cannot take on special advisers and do not have civil servants to help us to form policy. It is important that the services available to Members are of a high standard.
The present situation regarding services available to Deputies means they have a secretary either here in the Dáil or in their constituencies. In the case of someone with a secretary in the House, an office allowance is paid - it is a very insignificant amount. It was indicated earlier in the year that a second assistant would be made available to Deputies. Will that proceed or has any consideration been given to further assistance, either technical, financial or further secretarial help?
Services for Members have certainly improved in the last four to five years; I see a marked improvement since I was here last. The public expects a professional service from public representatives, particularly Oireachtas Members, and it is important to remember that. Facilities for Government backbenchers, as well as Opposition backbenchers, should be looked at as they do not have the facilities of Ministers and Ministers of State. That should be kept in mind.
Regarding Deputy Bruton's question on IT savings, Deputies have different IT requirements. Some are IT-literate while others are not. The Office has a number of IT projects and delays have arisen. The projects will continue and funding has been allocated for them in the 2003 Estimate. The delays are attributable to the resources available within the IT unit as well as procurement procedures generally. The value of many of the contracts mean EU tendering procedures must be complied with. The committee will be interested in the contract for a service level agreement which will meet all the IT support requirements of Members. The request for tenders, in compliance with EU requirements, has issued and on the closing date for receipt of tenders the selection process will commence. The Deloitte & Touche report and the IBR have made recommendations for increased services for Members and those will be examined.
The decrease in the 2003 Estimate does not include the provision for the IBR recommendations and general expenses. Those will not accrue to the same extent next year. Extra provision was made for the fact that this was widely expected to be an election year and that added to the considerable expense incurred by Members.
Regarding Deputy Burton's question on the salary scale, it is from €17,000 to €35,000, though the first three points have been abolished. This is an issue for the Minister for Finance and I will convey the Deputy's concerns to him. The research facility she refers to is a recommendation of the IBR and will be considered in the future. It would mean an extra 166 staff members within the House and there would be considerations of cost, accommodation and so on.
Deputy Ferris raised the decrease in the postal services amount which is due to less use of courier services. This forum is not the place to discuss next year's Estimates; there are many opportunities to do that. Deputy Twomey mentioned Members' allowances. Those are set by the Minister and are under review all the time. Regarding Members' secretaries in the Dáil and the IBR recommendation, that is an issue for the future. The public expects Members to give a very efficient service and high quality secretarial and IT standards are necessary. There is a strong move to give Deputies the best services.
Deputy Nolan said services have improved. It should be remembered the total budget is almost €78 million and there will be substantial public scrutiny of the budget.
IT support comes under Subhead 5A. The Minister of State proposes to make a saving of €3 million this year but it is clear from the Estimates for next year that that is not being carried forward to next year. The Minister of State gave assurances that it would be, but the figures published for next year do not include any increase. It suggests we are losing this provision.
The reason is that obviously it should have been spent this year. It would not have recurred next year. If that investment is made in IT and printing facilities for Members this year it would not have to be made next year. It will be carried forward and is a once-off. What is saved this year will be carried forward for next year.
Has the Minister of State any concluding remarks?
There is an increase of 0.014%, which is pretty close to nothing.
