asked the Minister for Labour whether he will comment on the report on pension schemes which showed that among the firms surveyed 78 per cent of male salary earners were in schemes, whereas only 67 per cent of male wage earners were in such schemes; and that in the case of women 41 per cent of salary earners and 27 per cent of manual workers were in such schemes; whether, in consultation with the trade unions, he has given any consideration to a single national scheme; and if he proposes to meet the trade unions and employers' representatives to institute industrial schemes which will allow employees to transfer from one job to another without a loss of pension rights.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Pension Schemes Report.
41.
The report referred to shows that considerable advances have been made in introducing pension schemes in recent years. I hope that this trend will continue. This matter is one of great complexity and the report should be useful to employers and trade unions negotiating pension schemes as part of the collective bargaining process.
Does the Minister think that the report has no lesson for his Department? Does he see any greater function for his Department in the wake of this report in the matter of rationalisation of pension schemes as seems to be the general drift of the report? In fact, does the Minister see any fresh departure for his Department arising from this report?
I think it is very relevant to the working of my Department and possibly too to the working of the management labour conference. We do prefer to rely on free collective bargaining but in any case in which a scheme might be formulated where supporting legislation might be necessary I would very seriously consider it.
What would be the Minister's attitude to a national scheme? One of the demands of the report seems to be for a national scheme that would include everybody from managerial level to unskilled grades of workers?
I am not too sure that I would be concerned with a national scheme at all. I would much prefer that we should have our own State pension schemes as we are trying to develop them and that each individual concern negotiate the best occupational scheme they can rather than have an omnibus national scheme. This is my thinking on this.
What about the problem of mobility between one job and another with the possibility of entering the EEC?
I can easily foresee my having to do something to support the movement from one job to another where contributions may be lost.
Question No. 42.
Where private employers do not have schemes, for example, for many thousands of workers earning between, say, £1,600 and £2,500 a year, and there are 40,000 such families in the country, surely the Minister might consider a national superannuation scheme comparable to that related to the health services introduced by the Minister for Health, a graduated supplementary pension scheme comparable to that which Mr. Crossman introduced in Britain when he was in office but which did not, unfortunately, find general acceptance? Would the Minister accept that there is still a serious problem where workers are just not covered by private employers at all for any superannuation?
I am encouraged by the increase in wage earners' occupational schemes since 1960. Prior to that it was mainly salary earners. That part of the report is interesting. I should not like to say too much at this stage on the question of committing myself to any type of a national scheme if I thought that voluntarily negotiated schemes could work to greater benefit and satisfaction.